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Post by dtmd on Oct 26, 2006 20:04:48 GMT -5
Kk, i've done research and i've come up with a fairly reasonable conclusion... no-one bomb me for this suggestion, but feel free to bomb my suggestions.
Remove all free skills, such as the Blue's extra turn, the Black's free unstealth, and the White's free 150 hp.
*Now are the changes that i am suggesting*
*Red*: Change the Blaze to 3 turns instead of 5. *White*: Create a (Heall on Demand) skill that will cost 3 turns and heals their health to 150. *Black*: Make Poison Touch cost 5 Turns instead of 3, but make it hurt them everytime their mini stat bar refreshes, instead of everytime they get a turn. *White*: Make Sight cost 5 turns (pulls people out of stealth also)
[Finally]: Create a "Healing Scroll" that costs 300 gp *This would be used to either heal yourself (to 150 health) for 0 turns or would allow you to use it on another ninja (heal them to 150 health) for 1 turn.
This would work because no-one would complain about not having a free skill and the healing scroll would give everyone a free advantage over dead ninja. This would help spreeing alot. Also, evens out the playing field giving everyone a 3 turn skill and a 5 turn skill.
*FREE TO BOMB ;D
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Post by Exia on Oct 26, 2006 20:51:19 GMT -5
what about blue they are out an extra turn and nothing to gain.
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Post by dtmd on Oct 26, 2006 20:55:20 GMT -5
that's because they are already powerful enough, maybe they can gain a slightly stronger Ice bolt, that way it more resembles an ice scroll
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Post by Exia on Oct 26, 2006 21:22:44 GMT -5
but your giving whites 1 more skill than black and red and 2 over blue thats making it more unbalanced it think.
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Post by Balsac on Oct 26, 2006 21:59:32 GMT -5
no, free blaze and free deflect for whites and damage every refresh for poison, thats it.[ /b]
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Post by captainnoob on Oct 26, 2006 22:04:04 GMT -5
Here's my take, yet again.
Blue - don't change Red - free blaze or maybe one turn blaze White - sight reveals steathed, heal up to 150 each res or heal to half max hp at reset Black - poison damage every refresh of player details, but still same cost
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Post by suavisimo on Oct 27, 2006 8:34:33 GMT -5
I'll try not to echo myself dtmdA heal scroll is not worth it. a) Live players do have an advantage over dead ones, they can actually use turns. b) 300 g for 150 hp heal is actually MORE expensive then going to the shrine, making it completely undesirable. Try coming up with a context if I'm missing the actual benefit to a heal scroll. Also, throughout Ninja Wars, we've had really good evolutionary trends, but they happen over time. That's why it's evolution. Some, all, or none of your ideas are ever going to happen. And if they do, it will not be possible to retain what we have in Ninja Wars by doing a sweeping change to all the classes. You also suggest removing Free Skills. I see no reason for this. Each innate skill is the main if not most prominent reason to pick a class from the start. To disect individually: *Red*: The impact of lowering the turn cost (after we raised the amount of turns one gets about a year and a half ago) is not caluclated at this point. *White*: 150 g will heal 150 hp. 3 turns of work gives you 30g. So in comparison to working, it's Extremely beneficial. Too much so I would say. Especially considering that White would get an extra skill, which is something we'd like to avoid. *Black* : See red. Additionally, I'd have to figure out what the actual refresh time is of the stat bar. Also, isn't the stat bar refreshed every time you refresh the page? if that's the case, people who refresh the page often are hurting faster. It's not a reliable time frame. *White* : giving White Sight + See Stealh renders Black Ninja's innate ability as a second rate skill. Even by doing away with all innate bonuses, White would become the only class with an ability to see through stealth. So you're displacing the innate ability to a skill only, that White gets, while effectively taking away a skill from another color. This just doesn't feel right. @cap'n Cant really argue regarding the innate skill to Red. I'd like to see some suggestions that don't involve a skill that they already posses. Thanks for commenting, and know that NW1 is almost 100% of the time on the backburner to NW2 in terms of skill development and consideration. Thank for the suggestions.
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Post by captainnoob on Oct 27, 2006 9:57:14 GMT -5
Well let me give my reasoning for the sight=unstealth. What does what get?
Deflect - only works durring duals if I'm not mistaken. Moonlight heal - works only at reset and anyone of a decient level can still kill them in 2 attacks. Sight - what good does this do? It was almost useful when you wanted to ice someone to know if you got their turns. Basically the only thing sight does is tell you their health incase you want a bounty. However, if you want their bounty so bad, you can now just use a dim mak.
It just seems to me that all the other classes get useful skills except white. And it makes sense that sight would reveal a target from stealth. I mean....it's called sight! And heck, I'm a black ninja and I'd still like to see white be able to reveal stealthed people. Besides, I don't know if this still happens or not, but I believe you remain stealthed if you die. So even if someone kills you, you just res and you're still stealthed, thus making it over powered.
Sorry for the rant but there ya go.
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Post by Balsac on Oct 27, 2006 10:09:22 GMT -5
i think a free deflect and a free blaze would help the noobs that choose that class a great deal.
poison damage everyrefresh is a great ideal cause now it doesnt even matter when you poisoned.
blues seems great as is.
i would just like the classes to rely more on their skills, what if you free the cost of the blaze and deflect poison and raise the cost of scrolls?
but i guess more then likely nothing will happen cause of ninjawars 2, nw1 on the back burner right? when does ninjawars 2 start , do you guys have a date? or time frame for us?
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 14:35:34 GMT -5
i like the summary put up by balsac, but my idea behind the health scroll is to eliminate the issue with not having anyone to kill on the player list. This way you could use it on dead newbies or on dead high-levels and manipulate them to get bounties and kills.
Currently, these are the skills and costs
*Red*: (Combat Based) (5) *Blaze: Add five turns to dueling to do more damage. (Not worth it) (5) *Fire Bolt: Damage Health according to level. (very useful)
*Blue*: (Turn Based) (0) *1 Turn every 20 minutes instead of 30. (useful and powerful) (3) *Cold Steal: steal a player's turns, (with a chance of backfire) (very useful) (5) *Ice Bolt: damage a player's turns according to level. (slightly useful)
*White*: (? Based) (0) *150 Free Health at Midnight (not very useful) (1) *Sight (Shows a player's stats and stuff) (very useful if you know what you're doing) *Black*: (Stealth Based) (3) *Poison Touch: does damge every time a player gains a turn, (according to level) (not very powerful/ easily cured) (3) *Stealth: stealth self (very useful) (0) *Unstealth: unstealth self (very useful)
Looking at it setup this way, it shows that all ninja have three skill except for the reds. as every one said before, something should be done there.
My previous suggestions i am now going to modify:
Give white the Sight = Unstealth ability but make it cost 3 turns. (makes sense cause that's how much it costs a black to stealth himself)
Give white the full heal at reset instead of just 150 health
Give red the Free Blaze
Give red a new skill but make it cost 5 turns, that way they are still where they started except with a free skill now.
Blue will remain the same, (this is because they are , according to the charts, more powerful than the rest of the ninja when used right)
Black will remain the saim but the poisen damage should be equal to a blue's turn rate, or 20 minutes instead of thirty. And for blues, the poisen rate will go to 10 minutes, this gives a draw back for being blue when dealing with poisen.
These are just a few of some good ideas that i've heard on the chat and seen on the forums...
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 14:59:31 GMT -5
there should be at least one draw back to being a specific class of ninja that should be able to be abused by another class: *This is their auxilery skill (0 turns)*
White can pull black out of stealth along with other ninja, Black can poisen blue faster than other classes, Blue can take the many turns it requires to be a red ninja *with the two 5-turn skills*, Red should have something on white.
I think that a burn skill would work out nicely. It works against all ninja but it would hurt the white ninja more. It would make it so that, while a player's body is burned, at reset instead of resurecting to 100 health, they on resurect to 50. This way, the high-level white ninja would be screwed when it comes to reset. Instead of full-healing to like 600 health, they would only heal to 50.
A burnheal thingy would be available at the shrine like the antidote for poisen.
*Its really confusing try to come up with new skills and measure them out against eachother because so many people have different views.*
(As always, please, bomb my comments) ;D
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Post by Exia on Oct 27, 2006 15:50:16 GMT -5
ok well i dont think any ninja should have a certain amount of power over another ninja and as for the white heal at reset thing just make it half of their max health unless your say lvl 5 and up or dont give whites the heal at reset. im all for the sight=unstealth too. i hope i didnt leave anything anything out.
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 16:16:29 GMT -5
I just got the idea for the Red Ninja!
Instead of making blaze free, make it cost three turns, but put a side effect (like the white's sight skill). Make this a "[glow=red,2,300]burn[/glow]" effect. Like poisen but it affects a player at reset and not when a turn is gained. It would sort of work like the white's sight pulling a player out of stealth or the backfire that sometimes happens with coldsteal. This way it wouldn't be a definite thing, it would only happen on occasion like as your level increases, so would the probability of causing it.
*Call it like Burn Scars* as for your suggestion snod, you're right, full heal at reset would be too powerful. Maybe make it like 5 x Level = hp for people level 20 and up and 100 health otherwise. This would give it a benefit after level 20 and would probably make players think more about their color later on in the game.
*The burnheal antidote would be available at the shrine like the poisen one.
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 16:32:41 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]I would like for this post to be the open post for everyone to put out their opinions into.[/glow]
everyone should be more creative, but not as crazy as me... ;D
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 18:51:45 GMT -5
ok, so i've just realized the fault in the burn thingy.
It gives more hp to non-white ninja at reset than they get normally.
Umm...
Victim is burned and this is what happens to him at resurectioin:
Victim's level : 25 Victim's Health : 0
............... resurection *not reset/or reset depending on the time* ..................
Victim's Level: 25 Victim's Health: 100/ (1/5) of level or 20
so the higher your level when you get burned, the lower you health is at resurection...
level 150/ 5 = 30 , 100/ 30 = 3 hp at resurection...
this would only work for victims level 5 and up.... that's it!
burn is a random occurance during blazing. It may or may not occur. If it does occur the victim's status will say : Burned. Then, When they go to reurect, they only get *100 (Level / 3)* health. This way, the higher the level you are if you get burned, the lower hp you start off with. This could be a key factor in using the white's reset ability. It would pretty much negate it...
Also, only level 5's and up can get burned, and the higher the level you are when you blaze, the higher the probability that you will burn your vicitim.
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Post by Exia on Oct 27, 2006 18:57:26 GMT -5
im still a little confused.
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Post by Balsac on Oct 27, 2006 18:58:24 GMT -5
so the added hit points is still there, its ok
still rather have blaze free
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 19:02:19 GMT -5
blaze would have to cost three turns, cant be free cause then it destroys the whole point of burning for free... same reason why the Sigh would become 3 three turns instead of 1 because it has a free skill (pulling people out of stealth) attatched to it.
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 19:02:35 GMT -5
dont free the blaze lol
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Post by Balsac on Oct 27, 2006 19:04:22 GMT -5
FREE THE BLAZE IT WILL HELP THE NOOBS
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Post by Exia on Oct 27, 2006 19:08:20 GMT -5
free sight and dont make it pull people out of stealth. thats fine with me.
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 19:13:14 GMT -5
kk, they way i look at it is that there are two ways of doing things, here (that i can see)...
1. Leave everything the same and forget all this crap...
2. Amp everything up and then tone it all down again to even it out. This is pretty much everything i've posted...
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Post by Balsac on Oct 27, 2006 19:15:14 GMT -5
NO, just freee the blaze!!
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Post by dtmd on Oct 27, 2006 19:18:38 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]ok, here's the shortest summary im gonna put out there.
White: Sight costs 3, and now pulls player's out of stealth Blue: Nothing Black: Poisen everytime the mini player stats box refreshes Red: Blaze costs 3, but now gives a side effect called burn (*or whatever*)[/glow]
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Post by kikyohimora on Oct 28, 2006 0:22:54 GMT -5
well there is a lot of chatter about changinf up the skills a bit. So far nothing has been a really good idea. Balsac wants free blaze and Most all black ninja agree that poison should be changed(me included) While we all have ideas about different things none of us have created a simple solution that is balanced. White ninja seem to have only one skill that even close to being usfull which is the healing skill. Black ninja have good skills, but one needs a bit of juice, red have good powers as well, but they lack a third skill unlike blue and black as does the white class. blue is the one class everyone agress is fine and needs nothing done to it. So leave blue alone up poison so it does damage faster and stronger...maybe make it slowly drain health at reset....if its poison it should have a slow effect not something that will kill right away. White needs another active skill added to it, and site needs to be tweaked a little. then the red should have a minor skill added to them. i have no clue what any of these skills should be but this is basically the main outline of things we should look at if we r to change the skills around. I'm seeing to much of people trying to recreate things, bend rules, or make even more skills that seem to benafit one ninja class not all of them thuis making thuings un-balanced.
By the look of things a white ninja is more of a healing or info gathering class....u could add a heal other to them or let them see even more of other ninjas info say like if they r online or something of the sort.
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Post by rihochan on Oct 28, 2006 2:39:35 GMT -5
I'd say add a skill like 'inferno barrier' to the red ninja. Inferno barrier would reduce damage from an enemy by a certain percentage and add a certain percentage of damage to that dealt by the red ninja.
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Post by captainnoob on Oct 28, 2006 13:59:31 GMT -5
Here's my take on the whole thing. We don't need any new skills. Just mess with the ones that are there.
Blue - everyone agrees it's fine as is so lets not discuss it Red - does NOT need a new skill. They currently have the most powerful offensive ability, as it does both damage and effects stealthed people. Thus the only thing I would change would be reducing the cost of blaze, esp seeing as how it's not really effective White - sight=unstealth. And it'd be nice to see moonlight heal modified to either half full health at reset or maybe 150 health every time they res. Black - poison would make so much more sense if it damaged more frequently. Or perhaps it would induce side effects to make the player not able to do anything until the poison was removed. But I'm a big fan of making the poison do more damage every time the player page is refreshed. It would make sense that way too if you think about it. If you're killing people, that pages will refresh often. Thus, you get hurt the more you strain yourself fighting. If you're just standing around chatting to people, it won't effect you as much, as you are just sitting there in town or something like that.
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Post by Exia on Oct 28, 2006 16:52:02 GMT -5
i like it!
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Post by crazyelephant206 on Oct 28, 2006 17:39:32 GMT -5
i like captains idea.
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