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Clans
Dec 29, 2003 0:00:27 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Dec 29, 2003 0:00:27 GMT -5
Ok, so, how to make clans better in NW2...
Well first off, all the normal basic features we don't have currently. Invite, minimum required members, officers, clan treasury, etc.
But, as I was trying to develop the combat system, I finally figured out how to make clans more useful. Clans will have guild houses in the town. These guild houses can be improved upon for money. The clan needs to raise money to purchase improvements for their house.
Further, guilds can hire NPC guards to protect their members. The more guards, the better, and I'm thinking of allowing clans to purchase different level guards for variations in cost.
Ok, now why? Well, if you read the combat thread, it might explain it better, but maybe not, so here I go.
When a ninja wants to assassinate someone in your clan, they have to come to the guild house and kill them. If you have guards, they will spot the killer and try to stop them. Ninjas, of course, are stealthy and will try to sneak past the guards. So more guards will increase your chances of spotting killers. But also, improvement to the guild house will help in spotting. These are in two different ways. The improvements to the house add more "check points" that assassins need to stealth past. The number of guards affects the required stealth to get past. Then, if you purchase higher level guards, they will be more difficult to kill in combat. But since they cost more, if you only buy high level guards, you won't have as many, meaning that they have less of a chance of spotting assassins.
Now, to make things even more interesting, we've got multiple cities for players to play in. Each city is like a new set of levels, because they offer better equipment and items, have more powerful doshin, and their dojos can provide better training. So, once you hit a certain level, you'll need to move to the next city.
What that means is, if you are in a clan, and they have a strong guild house in the village, when you move to the town, you'll need to reestablish your clan's presence. Your clan still exists, and still has all of the same members, so there's no need to recreate it. But you'll need to buy a guild house, purchase guards, and buy improvements to the house in each new town you move to. This will give the guilds a sense of advancement beyond that of the individuals levelling.
So, what do you think of this?
Still trying to make sure we can code it ;D
--Woof
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Clans
Jan 10, 2004 14:09:55 GMT -5
Post by TrueArcane on Jan 10, 2004 14:09:55 GMT -5
I have a few suggestions. ^_^
I think it's a little odd to have to sneak past guards (and maybe kill them), just to get to a ninja, who you'll have to then fight. I think it will make attacking clan members undesirable.
My first suggestion: Have more options for when you sneak into other clan's camp thing. Namely, theft, sabotage, and traps. Theft can steal gold for you and your clan, sabotage can lower the level of improvements that clan has made, and traps, for a nominal fee by the trapper, can randomly injure a guard/other ninja.
My second suggestion: Make it optional whether you are in/out of you clan house, and have it cost a turn or two to enter/exit your own clan house. So if I want the protection of my clan house, it will cost me a turn to enter, and, should I wish to go back to offensive, a turn to leave. This might help make it so you can still kill people in really well off clans (since they might not be in the clan house).
My third, and last, suggestion: Since guards are available for defensive, how about mercenaries for offensive? Lacking the stealth of a ninja, they will attack the guards head on, which will a) Weaken or kill the guards, and b) Lower the stealth required by a ninja to enter the camp.
That's it for me. ^_^ I hope my ideas are atleast helpful for inspiring better ones in you.
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Clans
Jan 11, 2004 8:37:26 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Jan 11, 2004 8:37:26 GMT -5
Great ideas! The multiple options once inside is great. I will get that on the list and see what we can come up with.
As for entering/leaving the guild house, I thought about it...but I haven't figured out an efficient way of coding it yet. I might be able to code something more automatic. Tell me how this sounds...
If you don't log in for more than a week, your character is considered outside of the guild house doing something. Whatever that might be. He could be taking a walk, going to theatre, anything not ninja related since you're not playing. This drops any protections the guild house provides.
Would it be worthwhile to put something like that in? Or is that just not enough? Let me know what you think. Thanks for your input.
--Woof
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Clans
Jan 12, 2004 18:06:33 GMT -5
Post by Tchalvak on Jan 12, 2004 18:06:33 GMT -5
I'm thinking that if you're hidden and protected (well, protected, at least) inside a guild house, you're no longer attackable, so it should have some disadvantages. Furthermore, while inside a guild house, pcs should have the option to "guard" that guild house, which would mean that you would supplement the npc guards numbers with your own strength, and in return you would be paid a wage out of the guild bank in step with your own level and strength, higher level, higher wage.
Obviously, clan leaders would then have to have the option of opening up a certain amount for daily wages, for example a max of 100 gold per day to be removed from the money in the guild bank. PCs could then sign up and receive that wage. If a 30th level signed up, obviously they'd eat up most of that 100 gold per day cost, so maybe only a few other 1st level characters would also be able to guard.
This would make players willingly become available as targets even inside the guild house even if a ninja wasn't looking for them specifically.
Oh, and good idea about them "going wandering" after a time of inactivity, B, definately a good way to go.
And clan leaders should have the ability to "invite" outsiders who are not of the clan into their clan stronghold, which can then open up the possibility for treachery from within.
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Clans
Apr 28, 2004 19:15:53 GMT -5
Post by Will on Apr 28, 2004 19:15:53 GMT -5
(if its confusing I appagise)
like you said it would be a good idea to let clan member gaurd the clan itself. but my idea is that you should be paid a wage deturmaned by what class you are.
let me explain what i mean. the lowest level of ninja in a clan would be a ninja in training. At this level of training you could not do very much. I see it mostly as you would train in guild techniques (if you decide to to that, since someone suggested that somewhere before)and other "in a clan" only type things.
The next would be that of Genin which is bacicly a amutrer ninja. At this level you can then act as a guard for the clan. And the highest ranked mission for this level would be C / 4
Before I go any father I would like to add that I think that clan missions would also be a good idea. Rangeing from attack, thefts, ect. on other clans.(they should also be ranked from 1-4 or S-C, 4 or C being the lowest and 1 and S being the highest) In which you would have to make teams of 4. A Clan leader would choose a Chuunin or Jounin (more on this later) for a mission and the Chunin or Jounin would then choose 3 other ninja that have the rank avalible for that rank of mission.(sidenote:not sure if the Clan leader would be able to participte in missions.)The rank of ninja avalable for each misson would be like this, using the number scale.
Genin would qualify for missions level 4 and 3. Chuunin would qualify for missions level 3 and 2. Jounin would qualify for missions level 1.
Chuunin are average ninjas. They to can act as guards for the clan. They also would be the ones in charge of the missions.(depending on class).
And finally Jounin would be the elite ninja. They have the important job of gaurding the clan by guarding the Clan leader if they so chose or are asigned to. They are also the only ones who can do the A/1 class missions.
Also in order to advance in these classes they would need to gain a special kind of experince. (exp.) (for short I'll call it clan exp.)
In order to get clan exp. you have the following options.
Donate: by donating to the clan you get clan exp. equal to the amount of gold you put in. (1 gold = 1 exp.) But you cannot gain more than 25% of your clan exp. this way although you can donate more to the clan if you want to. (ex. to get to the 2nd level you need something like 400 exp. So the max amout of exp. you can get from donateing is 100)
(training dojos would be purchaseable with different level of dojos. Higher level dojo = increase stats quicker and more powerful.)
Training: in training you can train in the clan dojo for turns (another idea i just had) in a stat (provideing you decide to use stats) like strength, Agiltiy, endurance(hp),ect. AKA body skills (for a more ninja-esk name, taijutsu would be better name for body skills), Ninjutsu(aka special ninja skills) (ex. fire bolt), Genjutsu (illusionary techniques): can be used in the construction of traps. or illusionary techniques. (like a skill that would cause the ninja to create a fake version of themselves. higher level Vs. opponets level of genjutsu = higher chance that enemy might attack fake self.)
Missions: would get the highest amout of exp. (along with whatever money you get for the mission.) (ex. 20 exp. per mission.
more ideas to come some, hopefully...
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Clans
Apr 29, 2004 11:15:58 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Apr 29, 2004 11:15:58 GMT -5
Whoa, big post Will!
You've got quite a few ideas here that we've got to sort through.
First off, I had been considering clan based dojos, but I don't think we're going to be implementing that. The reason we won't is a balance issue. As your clan gets more powerful, you've already got a significant advantage just being in that clan. By adding improvements to the levelling system by having upgraded dojos you can purchase for your clan, I think we'll end up with the dreaded "slippery slope" of the powerful becoming more powerful faster and easier than everyone else, which just isn't good for balance.
I agree that it would be nice to have clan members guard the clan houses, but I haven't devised an efficient system for making that happen yet. Gameplay wise it would be a bit difficult as well. If you're guarding the guild house, doesn't that mean that you can't go out and engage in combat yourself? Is your character locked for the next few hours, or even a full day, while he guards? I don't think that's a good design as it simply prevents people from playing, and it's much more fun to actively advance than passively advance.
Clan missions would certainly be a good idea, and we'll look into a way to implement it, but I can't promise that it will come up with the first version of NW2. We'll try though, because it really is a good idea.
I also like the idea of "clan" experience that allows you to advance in certain clan areas. Again, implementation of the clan areas will be a challenge. Implementation of clan experience wouldn't be that hard. But what kind of things could you advance in with your clan? I think officer positions should be handed out by the clan leaders, not earned through experience. And I know there have been comments on clan skills, but when the clans are player made, not hard coded, then it gets a bit difficult to implement.
We could possibly have a pool of skills that a clan could choose from, but that would mean the clan skills aren't unique. You could be in one clan and another person could be in a different clan but you could both have the same clan skill. And ontop of that difficulty, we have to worry again about the powerful clan, which is already powerful, becoming more powerful easily because we overpower them with benefits.
It's a delicate balancing act we have to consider, but I don't want you to think I'm blowing off your ideas. I like them, and I understand the motivation for them, and I want to capture that and implement it in the game in a balanced way. Hopefully we can achieve this balance.
Thanks for your ideas and interest. Keep it coming!
--Woof
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Clans
Jul 6, 2004 22:48:16 GMT -5
Post by buddho on Jul 6, 2004 22:48:16 GMT -5
as you talk about bank and clan treasury, why not bank only for clans ?
you must be in a clan to deposit money or there is only the clan treasury and you have to talk a lot about money
clan alliances ?
and what aout free lance : maybe clan could also offer limitations and problems ?
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Clans
Jul 17, 2004 9:05:49 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Jul 17, 2004 9:05:49 GMT -5
Well, I think if we made banking only for clans, then the game would favor clans FAR more than non-clanned ninjas. So I think we'll keep the bank for saving money, and the clan treasury for helping the clan build there hall and hire guards and stuff.
For alliances, I'm not sure what we would do there, but I think alliances should probably be play tested after the initial NW2 release.
The problem with joining a clan? You're an easier target? You'll instantly gain more friends and enemies. We are planning on having tournaments, and perhaps only 3 people from a single clan may join the tournament. To make it fair though, there will be clan specific tournaments to determine the best ninja in the clan. So the village tournament will be open to everyone, but only 3 per clan can join, and the clan tournaments will be open only to the members of the clan.
Your thoughts on these ideas? I'm sure we can come up with some other balancing factors between being clanned and going solo.
--Woof
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AcidcorE
Young Ninja
Silent Bob
Posts: 9
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Clans
Sept 30, 2004 13:13:39 GMT -5
Post by AcidcorE on Sept 30, 2004 13:13:39 GMT -5
well to stop en mass clans emerging. there should be some restricitions instead of EVERYONE making one. like maybe a certain ammount of money is needed to make one. but i was thinking around 32 members per clan maybe untill the game grows (the game is really big at the moment i was surprised) but more should come along as the game comes out of development.
and thats all my ideas for the moment .......
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Clans
Oct 3, 2004 14:50:03 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Oct 3, 2004 14:50:03 GMT -5
Yes, I do think that there should be a start up cost to create a guild to prevent the current problem with clans in NinjaWars which is that everyone is starting them and we have almost 100 clans with only 1 person in them.
Capping the amount of people allowed in the clan doesn't seem entirely fair, but maybe you're right. I'll have to look into the game balance consequences of that idea.
Perhaps we could have a requirement for the guild that for every X members, the guild must have an active leader. So you have the clan Head Ninja, and he can have 32 people in the guild. To invite more, he would need to appoint another leader, like a deputy, and that deputy would be able to invite 16 more or something.
The problem would be, what if the lesser leaders become inactive? I think maybe there should automatically be some kind of internal strife in the guild if that happens and every player under that leader splinters of the main guild. Each one had the option of becoming a leader of that guild, but if more than one accept the responsibility, they must fight for dominance and the winner becomes the leader of a brand new guild.
What do you think?
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Clans
Nov 10, 2004 1:29:34 GMT -5
Post by OmegaHawk on Nov 10, 2004 1:29:34 GMT -5
here goes my suggestions..
about the guards for the clan guild... i think why have npc guards... we are ninja right.. and i think its better to say that the guild defence depends on the total of ninja members that clan have.. so the number of guards(member of the clan guarding) is lets say some% of the total clan members.
and about attacking/killing a ninja by entering their guild isnt a good idea.. maybe ambush is a better option.
and for those who are not in a clan, maybe they can have a protection from a clan by paying some money to the clan.. the higher protection asked the higher the cost is.. just like truearcane suggestion..
something like ninja for hire..
for the tournament, maybe we should put some level requirements to it.. the classes( class 1 - lvl 1-5 .. class 2- lvl 6-10 and so on..
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Clans
Nov 15, 2004 11:22:02 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Nov 15, 2004 11:22:02 GMT -5
Hi OmegaHawk, Thanks for the post.
First a question: Why don't you think infiltrating a guild hall to assasinate a ninja is a good idea?
I can see your point about the ninja themselves defending the guild hall, and having the guild's defenses based on the number of ninja present at that location, but the problem is, if you're caught infiltrating a hall, who catches you and fights you? I mean, is it just random who in the hall tries to defend it?
Actually, as I'm thinking about this, that sounds really good. Even if the first couple of ninja are a bit lower level than you are, it makes sense. They leap in to discover you, and you fight it out, and you can kill a couple of them. Maybe. You won't get to your target because you're busy fighting off other ninja. And if you fight off a few easy ninja and keep trying to get to your target, there's a chance you will be overwhelmed either by numbers or by power, as you fight more ninja, and probably more powerful ninja.
Thanks again for the post, this has given us a bit more to think about how we want to do clans. Here's a scenario and a question. What do you all think?
You decide to go assassinate Hitoma of the Red Dragon Clan. You begin your infiltration of the Red Dragon hall in the city of Nagami, where you know Hitoma is. You pass over the wall without being spotted. You circle the building, looking for a safe way in. You see a window and enter, but you are SPOTTED! You are now in battle with another ninja, but the ninja is weaker than you. If you don't kill the ninja, but he escapes you, then he will raise the alarm and more ninja will come. If you kill him, you have a better chance of not being spotted again. After the battle, you are weakend, making each subsequent battle harder, but you press on, and with almost no health left, you spot Hitoma. You raise your crossbow and fire....
So this to me is the sort of story behind the mechanics of infiltration and assassination. Here's a question: If there's is a portable healing potion item, does that significantly reduce the risk of infiltration to the point where the risk is negligible, because in between fights you can just use the healing items and be at full health for the next fight? Let me know your thoughts on this situation and the clan, hall infiltration, and assassination topics as well.
--Woof
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Clans
Dec 10, 2004 2:52:46 GMT -5
Post by Tchalvak on Dec 10, 2004 2:52:46 GMT -5
Alright, a view of a dynamic setup for clan guarding, attacking, and infiltration:
Joining a clan: To make clan honor more meaningful, joining clans must require a cost. The best thing that I can think of for this cost is "renown" (the non-clan equivalent of clan honor). So to enter a clan, you have to abase yourself in front of the clan leader, swearing loyalty to him, sacrificing your own renown in order to get rank in a clan.
Clan Rank: Lower ranked members are more likely to be left out in the cold, unprotected by the clan. Really low rank members will tend to lose membership in the clan. Clan Rank will be decreased very harshly by inactivity. You can increase your clan rank by killing powerful attackers while guarding, sabotaging enemy clans, or to a lesser extent simply by increasing your renown or level through quests and combat. Higher ranked members would have a better chance at leadership positions, and would have automatic entrance into the clan hall. The first five highest ranked members of a clan are the clan elites. If the present leader of a clan (the warlord) goes inactive for too long, or voluntarily gives up leadership, the present leader loses their leadership status and the next highest ranked elite becomes leader.
Gaining money: As a ninja in a clan, you can work for your clan as a guard. Volunteering to guard doesn't cost you turns, but it also doesn't get you any gold until a period of time (say one full day) has passed. While you are guarding you gain salary, but are in danger from those who attack the clan. To get money without guarding, you can work in the fields with the peasants, which gives you quick money in exchange for turns (even though it is slightly beneath your honor as a ninja).
There are two states of being inside a clan: Guarding, and Resting.
While Resting: You are protected by those ninja on guard in your clan. Attacks upon you should therefore become less frequent. However, you cannot attack anyone, and getting in and out of your clan-hall to attack people costs you movement and turns.
While Guarding: Salary: You get a very minor salary appropriate to your ninja level paid to you from the "clan-guard-payment-pool" (set up and monitored by the clan leader) while in the guarding circle. If the clan cannot pay this salary, then that means that they're not even covering your food costs or the like, and your honor as a skilled ninja demands that you cannot guard for them, and must seek out more productive employment. (So if the clan runs out of money, everyone is dropped from the guarding rank into the resting rank, no other choice) When someone either attacks or tries to infiltrate your clan (or more importantly, when another clan tries to attack your clan) you are the first line of defense. If you die while guarding a clan, you're no longer guarding, and when you get resurrected you get resurrected at the shrine, which lies outside of the clanhall.
Bounty on attackers: If your clan leader has agreed to bounty on the heads of attackers, you get an extra reward from the clan-guard-payment-pool based on the level of every attacker/infiltrator that you notice and kill (if you are a ninja loyal to your clan, you'll just turn down/turn off this reward, the honorable thing to do) So clan leaders can either set a base salary or (most useful in times of war) set rewards for killing attackers, the stronger the attacker, the better the reward, to encourage the strongest of the clan's ninja to guard.
Clan Hall Size: Clan halls start out able to contain only so many people (say, 10 as a base). The more money you put into a clanhall, the more people it can contain, both resting and guarding. Perhaps a maximum of, say, 70% of the total ninja levels of everyone within the clan-hall can be guarding at any point in time. (So at base, in a clan of 10 level 1's, you could get seven of them guarding) You can have as many people as you want in a clan, but only so many of them will be able to be inside the clan hall at any one time.
Clan Hall Growth: Making an initial clan hall costs gold. You can only increase the size of a clan-hall slowly, over an extended period of time (and it costs gold, from the clan or otherwise)
Clan Hall Income: Clan leaders get gold from the fields that surround their clan-hall, and the peasants that work those fields. It is beneath the honor of ninja to attack peasants. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Peasants getting attacked means peasants not making money for the clan, which means that a clan can't grow or pay its ninja to guard. Clan Hall leaders can use the peasant gold for things that the clan needs (guards, increases in size, increases to item storage, traps), but not for their own benefit (e.g. buying healing scrolls for themselves)
Clan Allies and Mercenaries: Members of ally clans can be protected within a clan-hall as guests of the clan. Members of ally clans can also guard for your clan in return for a high salary while they are guarding. Guests and Mercenaries, who were allowed within the clan, are in a much better position to sabotage it.
Attacking a ClanHall: When attacking a clanhall, you are either trying to get to someone who is a guard (just attacking the outer defenses of the clan), or you are trying to get to someone who is resting within it (assassination), or you are trying to get inside it to sabotage the clan (sabotage).
Clan Hall Sabotage: To sabotage a clan hall, you have to get inside it. Sabotage could poison or weaken the members within a clan, or it could destroy sections of a clanhall, or it could destroy items in the clan's vaults, or cause the peasants to desert (somehow).
Clan Hall Infiltration: To get past the guards, you need stealth. If you have higher skill at stealth than the people guarding, you will probably be able to get in un-noticed. If you have lower stealth ability, then you will probably get caught by the guards, and have to fight one (those with higher stealth will be more likely to catch you, so you will be more likely to have to fight the ones that have higher stealth). Each time that you kill a guard, you get another good chance to enter the clan hall undetected. If you only cause the guard to retreat, then your chance of getting in undetected is much less.
Once you have infiltrated a clan hall:
You can either sabotage the hall in some manner, or you can try to assassinate someone resting in the hall.
...this section to be fleshed out, eventually...
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Clans
Dec 10, 2004 5:47:24 GMT -5
Post by Tchalvak on Dec 10, 2004 5:47:24 GMT -5
...and... an interesting ninja link or two to round it all out (though I haven't looked at all the content on the sites, there is some good stuff about ninja using common objects as weapons) people.howstuffworks.com/ninja8.htmwww.iganinja.jp/english/budou/flam.htmlOf course, I'm mostly doing this to put this thread (the one that I added the most useful content to out of all the ones that I just posted to) at the top of the list.
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Clans
Dec 10, 2004 16:19:51 GMT -5
Post by sagron on Dec 10, 2004 16:19:51 GMT -5
How about something like clan experience... to go with clan wars? The guards and mercenaries are purchased for the wars and you could have equipment too(walls, catapults, etc.). Then you could also have things like a clan healer which deducts from the clan funds when you use it and a clan armory/weaponsmith where you could use donated equipment(when you are good enough to get a new piece you donate back what you borrowed). Then you could actually have clan levels based on the experience of the clan and higher levels allow a larger number of guards and mercs to be hired as well as better equipment(catapults, walls, etc.) to be built.
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Clans
Dec 16, 2004 23:50:06 GMT -5
Post by camilo on Dec 16, 2004 23:50:06 GMT -5
Joining a clan: To make clan honor more meaningful, joining clans must require a cost. good idea...only people who have been around long enough to collect some gold (to pay for the "entry fee") will join...that will, I believe, encourage level 1s to keep on playing...the question is...how much?...would the price be set by the clan leaders or just a predetermined amount decided by you guys? Clan Rank: Lower ranked members are more likely to be left out in the cold, unprotected by the clan. Really low rank members will tend to lose membership in the clan. Clan Rank will be decreased very harshly by inactivity. uummmm...the "thing" about joining a clan is mainly because of protection and of course having an entertainning environment...if by leaving low levels out in the cold you mean not helping them at all...its kind of pointless to even join the clan...I do like the idea of clan rank being decreased by inactivity... Higher ranked members would have a better chance at leadership positions, and would have automatic entrance into the clan hall. The first five highest ranked members of a clan are the clan elites. If the present leader of a clan (the warlord) goes inactive for too long, or voluntarily gives up leadership, the present leader loses their leadership status and the next highest ranked elite becomes leader. ...ummm yeah...I like... ... again...does the clan leader decide what rank you are?or will it be predetermined by you guys? Gaining money: As a ninja in a clan, you can work for your clan as a guard. Volunteering to guard doesn't cost you turns, but it also doesn't get you any gold until a period of time (say one full day) has passed. While you are guarding you gain salary, but are in danger from those who attack the clan. I like also!! ;D ...BUT what if you are killed before the one day period while guarding? does that mean you won't get gold at all...maybe you could get extra gold (cause you just died defending your people...a hero!!) ...and will the gold come from donations made to the clan by its members? or would it be a pre-set amount of gold...an hourly rate set by by you guys?... To get money without guarding, you can work in the fields with the peasants, which gives you quick money in exchange for turns (even though it is slightly beneath your honor as a ninja). well this is basically the work link we have right now in NW1...the only difference its that it will be inside the clan HQ....maybe work should give different type of jobs (maybe farmer, merchant, guard, teacher etc..) which will require different criteria for each. Maybe you need 30 turns and a full day to be a teacher and you get paid "x" amount ...or maybe 40 turns and half a day to be a merchant which will give you "x" amount of gold.. of course if you are dead you cannot fulfill your task...but since your clan is being guarded (hopefully) ..no one can kill you..unless the clan defense proves to be weak.. While Resting: You are protected by those ninja on guard in your clan. Attacks upon you should therefore become less frequent. However, you cannot attack anyone, and getting in and out of your clan-hall to attack people costs you movement and turns. well yeh!!! no one should attack a ninja when they have not gotten a nice nap.. Salary: You get a very minor salary appropriate to your ninja level paid to you from the "clan-guard-payment-pool" (set up and monitored by the clan leader) while in the guarding circle. If the clan cannot pay this salary, then that means that they're not even covering your food costs or the like, and your honor as a skilled ninja demands that you cannot guard for them, and must seek out more productive employment. (So if the clan runs out of money, everyone is dropped from the guarding rank into the resting rank, no other choice) When someone either attacks or tries to infiltrate your clan (or more importantly, when another clan tries to attack your clan) you are the first line of defense. If you die while guarding a clan, you're no longer guarding, and when you get resurrected you get resurrected at the shrine, which lies outside of the clanhall. fair anough...but attacking/infiltrating the clan should be made in a way so that if the attacker already killed the guard(s)...he cannot go to the shrine and cure fully and then infiltrate the clan again and masacre everyone in sight...but rather he/she has to keep on attacking with their current health...of course healing items would come in really helpfull (but only to provide cure for a minimun amount of hp)... Bounty on attackers: If your clan leader has agreed to bounty on the heads of attackers, you get an extra reward from the clan-guard-payment-pool based on the level of every attacker/infiltrator that you notice and kill (if you are a ninja loyal to your clan, you'll just turn down/turn off this reward, the honorable thing to do) So clan leaders can either set a base salary or (most useful in times of war) set rewards for killing attackers, the stronger the attacker, the better the reward, to encourage the strongest of the clan's ninja to guard. enough said...good idea... Clan Allies and Mercenaries: Members of ally clans can be protected within a clan-hall as guests of the clan. Members of ally clans can also guard for your clan in return for a high salary while they are guarding. Guests and Mercenaries, who were allowed within the clan, are in a much better position to sabotage it. A double-edged sword situation...nice idea...but it could lead to the creation of a super-defensive clan that will make it almost impossible to attack/infiltrate...of course some limits should be set up... Clan Hall Sabotage: To sabotage a clan hall, you have to get inside it. Sabotage could poison or weaken the members within a clan, or it could destroy sections of a clanhall, or it could destroy items in the clan's vaults, or cause the peasants to desert (somehow). poison is a good idea...plus stealth in order to infiltrate is also good cause maybe you could get caught by a guard..or maybe you could be lucky and not get caught.. my $0.02
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Clans
Dec 30, 2005 19:39:28 GMT -5
Post by Gloomfall on Dec 30, 2005 19:39:28 GMT -5
I think it would be nice to see if ninja clans could issue missions to their members, giving them rewards in the form of items/money/training while the clan would take a portion of the rewards to help pay for their own fee's and member perks. I think that would prevent people from having clans just lounging there, and would keep clans from becoming too big without a better reputation.. Clan Reputation = More missions and more money for missions. More money = Better perks for active and skilled members. Better Members = Better reputation.. Pretty much a cycle like that, of course you could still have Ronin out there who make their own way through what they manage to find on their own. It would be nice if they would have contacts where they can find basic missions every so often (nothing too rewarding unless they become really famous) but would mostly have to rely on wandering and attacking various NPCs for their loot (items/money). Some extra perks I can think about for clans, is giving them an option to train their elite ninja's with special skills that otherwise wouldn't be available to everyone else. Based on their reputation they can invest alot of money into the ability to train their ninja with special abilities that would enhance their current stuff.. An example being, a clan that is famous for taking alot of Assassination missions and always carries through with them, would make alot of money to pay their members when they carry out these missions. They would also be able to train up skills to improve their assassination attempts and stealth abilities that other clans might not nessicarily have. As well as investing in some special items that improve their chances.. Like poison for weapons, or smoke bombs, or something special that normally wouldn't be available to others. That clan will then be able to further specialize it's members to do Assassination missions, and after a while they will be getting massive amounts of reputation to get more missions for it's members.. and even have other clans issuing missions to them. People will then fear them enough to stop them from placing bounties on that clan, because the clan should protect it's own members, all for one type thing. Gloomfall (Militaryman101@hotmail.com (Msn messenger capable)
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Clans
Dec 30, 2005 20:08:16 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Dec 30, 2005 20:08:16 GMT -5
Thank you for the repost.
We have discussed the idea of having clan created missions that can be open to the public, to members only, or to clan allies. We like the idea, too. But we don't think it will get in for the initial release, there's just too much to do. It will most likely be added after the first few rounds though.
As for the reputation/reward relationship, that's something interesting. Forcing the rewards for missions to be a certain value based on clan reputation. That could be interesting, though it has its pros and cons when compared to player-determined value.
As for giving them reward based on the activities they engage in, its interesting, but seems to lead to pigeon-holeing, in that if you start a clan with a few more assassins than fighters, the fighters will get screwed out of the benefit. I'm sure there are ways to do it, so we'll look into that type of reward system as well. We have definitely thought about extra perks for members of clans, but we also like rogue Ninja (Ronin are masterless samurai) so we don't want being a clan to be so amazing that everyone has to be in one to compete.
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Clans
Dec 31, 2005 15:17:27 GMT -5
Post by Gloomfall on Dec 31, 2005 15:17:27 GMT -5
Not rewards based on what the clan members do, but the option for the clan to invest money into the ability to train their members in a special ability.
Thus, it's natural that a clan of Assassins would choose things that assist them in just that. But they'd be able to buy other things as well, should they want to.
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Clans
Jan 1, 2006 17:46:42 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Jan 1, 2006 17:46:42 GMT -5
I see, allowing clan leaders to help a specific section of its population. That would allow a clan to put money into its favored class, or perhaps to the class it has least of to increase recruitment. Good idea.
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Clans
Jan 3, 2006 19:07:11 GMT -5
Post by Gloomfall on Jan 3, 2006 19:07:11 GMT -5
Also, i'd institute a restriction that only allows clans to have 3-5 specified enhancements before each additional one makes them less and less powerful, to keep specialized clans in check with varied clans, and the clans that support a huge array of styles would go after "general" enhancements allowing them to get the most bang for their buck.. Just a thought.
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Clans
Jul 17, 2006 8:57:09 GMT -5
Post by angrypanda on Jul 17, 2006 8:57:09 GMT -5
What about clan income? I'm thinking a mafia type "protection fee" of villagers, the more you demand, the more likley the villagers are to rise up against you, depending on the strength of your clan. So this means, if you demand lots of gold while your clan isn't very strong, the villagers come and burn down your clan hall, hence no more clan.
What do you think about that?
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Clans
Jul 17, 2006 22:33:22 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Jul 17, 2006 22:33:22 GMT -5
The clans aren't going to be the corruption present in the town, they won't be in control of the town. The ninja are relatively secretive and don't want to draw a lot of attention. Besides, there are already corrupt gangsters, cops, and whatever else in the story. The ninja will have to navigate that, it's not going to be a feature of the clan itself.
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Clans
Jul 18, 2006 4:01:21 GMT -5
Post by angrypanda on Jul 18, 2006 4:01:21 GMT -5
Fair enough...can WE still demand money, plunder villages, etc? In NW2 will the Doshin be a NPC that will find and attempt to kill criminals? Come to think of it, would we as players be able to join the Doshin and hunt down crims for money? Or become a criminal ourselves... NW2 is starting to sound REALLY GOOD! Do you have any sort of a release date yet?
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Clans
Jul 18, 2006 19:50:51 GMT -5
Post by Beagle on Jul 18, 2006 19:50:51 GMT -5
No promises, but we're currently in a heavy crunch mode. We'll let you know, don't worry. Soon....
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Clans
Jul 19, 2006 19:09:18 GMT -5
Post by angrypanda on Jul 19, 2006 19:09:18 GMT -5
How bout the other bit? Demanding money of villagers, and the Doshin bit?
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Clans
Aug 2, 2006 14:10:24 GMT -5
Post by kenpachi on Aug 2, 2006 14:10:24 GMT -5
Questions:Could you all decide to simply attack a clan hall and try to take it over by brute force? Could an attack be used to distract the guards while someone makes an assassination? Would a sabotage action be able to deactivate traps or let enemies into the clan hall to allow the decimation of the clan? Would there be a way to subjugate the clans or take over its buildings and/or gold?
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Clans
Apr 12, 2007 22:48:27 GMT -5
Post by Legend on Apr 12, 2007 22:48:27 GMT -5
i read alot of this ... but my eyes are stating to hurt ... this might have been said but i'll say it anyway
i seen something about clans having a certain amount of members ... thats cool but have it so that you can make the clan bigger by buying more room or w/e you know what i'm saying so like it starts somewhat like a house and then i decide to add a tower or w/e this gives me room for 3 more pp, and so on
another thing if your in the clan you should want to protect it you shouldn't have to get payed for it
i know theres gunna be bounties but what about like clan bounties like i put a hit on the entire clan and i want someone to go in and set a few traps and sabotage the clan and im willing to pay x amount of money - just a thought
now this whole clan mission thing ... i like that 3-4 man squads get payed from out side of the clan to do missions like the one posted above or stuff i like it umm i have some more ideas but i just went blank
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Clans
Apr 13, 2007 15:33:16 GMT -5
Post by Exia on Apr 13, 2007 15:33:16 GMT -5
haha you used a variable! hilarious!
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