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Post by Beagle on Dec 24, 2003 12:24:08 GMT -5
Weapons are a big part of any combat based RPG. NinjaWars should be no exception.
What we're planning at the moment is very simple. Weapons has two stats: minimum damage and maximum damage. These numbers are expressed as augmenters. So...
A ninja who normally does from 0 to 25 damage barehanded would do 5 to 27 damage with +5/+2 weapon.
But there isn't much else we can figure out to do considering our very basic combat system.
One idea we're toying with is "damage types". The classic "blunt", "pierce", and "slash" type weapons. And then, we would have armor with specific ratings against each type of weapon. It would add an interesting twist to the game as the most popular armor would be dependent on the most popular weapon.
As for armor, again, there isn't much we can do with it, but I've got a few ideas. First, armor has a damage reduction stat, which will pretty much reduce the damage of every attack thrown at you. With the idea above, it would have different damage reducers depending on the weapon type you're being attacked with.
Another idea I had for armor was the ability to reduce the effects of certain magics. So, classic RPG style, you'd have armor with protection from fire and armor with protection from ice. I was also thinking that some armor could protect you from items like shurikens or darts. So they had to get a really good attack in with those thrown weapons in order to land a hit.
At the moment, we're foregoing the idea of "slots" for the sake of simplicity. This is still a new game and we are still new developers. We're going to build the system to allow for the addition of things like helmets, shin guards, etc. But for now, we're only discussing weapons and "armor" or torso slot armor.
So what do you think? Have you got any ideas for making these items more interesting or possibly new ideas for the combat system?
--Woof
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Post by Magatsu on Dec 24, 2003 14:37:21 GMT -5
Let's just put it this way:
Ninjas don't wear armor. [Not much, at least.]
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Post by camilo on Dec 24, 2003 19:31:18 GMT -5
how about some disguises ... well i know the stats are not that evolved rite now .. so i duno .. maybe some disguises could increase attack ..others max health .and so on..
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Post by Beagle on Dec 25, 2003 3:21:35 GMT -5
Magatsu...yeah...but...simple games get kind of boring and right now...I mean, can't Ninjas wear like...thin armor? Or....I dunno, some kind of protective arm bands or something to help block swords?
Just trying to make the game more complex for 2 reasons.
1) To make it interesting for you players 2) To teach us, the newbie developers stuff so that we can go on to eventually make the game "really good".
Help?
--Woof
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Post by Magatsu on Dec 25, 2003 22:48:08 GMT -5
Actually I already feedbacked to Ninjalord about this issue when the forum was still in invisionfree.
Yes ninjas _DO_ wear protective gear: 1. Arm guards 2. Shin Guards 3. Chain mail [That looks like the fishnet thing]
How about instead of armor as purchasable stock or equippable items, we have a stat called: Defense
And for armor, we'll simply leave it as two categories, Arm Guards and Chain mail. These are essential, though usually unneccessary.
Kudos.
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Post by Beagle on Dec 25, 2003 22:54:19 GMT -5
Well, how would one raise their defense skill? Would it simply raise through combat? Or would you have to spend your experience points to raise this skill?
I'm not really sure how to fit in a defense skill and make it worth the players time to think about it.
And yeah, if ninjas can wear chainmail, then they can wear some simpler forms of armor too like thick cloth, and boned cloth (with some kind of protective strips of bone or metal to absorb blows), etc. So we could make the equipable torso armor interesting enough to implement into the game.
We can do the different "armor slots" after we've got the basics down. We'll make sure to build the system to allow us to make more armor for different parts of the body, but for discussion purposes, and probably for the first couple of weeks of testing, we'll stick to just "breastplate" or "torso slot" armor.
If you want to elaborate on the defense skill, I'm all ears.
--Woof
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Post by Magatsu on Dec 26, 2003 0:57:42 GMT -5
I don't know about you, but I'm an Akira Kurosawa nut. ;D Been reading, watching, and playing ninja all my life! I apologise, but I'm pretty much against the idea of ninjas wearing armor..simply because it's not ninja-ish. They climb walls, they do disguises, they assassinate. But for all the weird movies that you've seen so far, they really do not engage in close combat battles for as much as they can help it. So armor is usually unneccessary. That's why this game had my attention for so long. It's different. Let's keep it different, and original. I suggest players having to spend their experience points on their defense stat. And if they don't, well, they'll just have to learn it the hard way! Chain mail is there for a reason, and not other kinds of armor for the torso. Because chainmail is extremely flexible. Ninjas have to contort their bodies to all kinds of shapes to stick to ceilings, climb rooftops and what not. With other kinds of armor like hard interfaced cloth, or starched leather, even if it's soft, it is not as appropriate, or as versatile. The black hakama they wear on top of their ninja gi already provides protection for their spinal cord and stomach, as there are hard pieces there. That's armor enough. And like I said earlier, what's the use of superpower equipment if you aren't powerful enough to use it? Imagine a level 1 ninja with a hell lot of money. He uses this money to buy a super cool, super invulnerable armor. He becomes God. But he's a friggin level 1. Doesn't make sense. The only way to solve this, is to force the players through quests to obtain this item, right? Then if that's the case, this game is going to be like the other games. Not much originality. My two cents. (^_^)
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Post by Beagle on Dec 28, 2003 23:13:58 GMT -5
Well, I can say this Magatsu...you present a good challenge to me as Programming Lead ;D
I will agree to your arguments for not wearing armor. I will have to rethink putting armor in at all.
As for preventing low levels from grabbing "high level gear", the intent is to make items NOT amazing, but to provide slight advantages for high cost. We also have other mechanics in mind to prevent low levels from getting "over-powered" gear.
I spent a good 2 hours trying to work out more unique things, check out the combat thread.
--Woof
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Post by Sagron on Feb 26, 2004 1:34:25 GMT -5
Can't you have the armor tie into the defense idea? Armor efficiency is based on defense rating. Just a thought...
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Post by Beagle on Feb 26, 2004 9:26:31 GMT -5
I think the debate was that armor proficiency isn't enough. We can provide skills for defense and such, but once you put armor on a ninja, they aren't a ninja anymore.
We've been working this out a little more and think that small pieces of armor like wrist guards, padding of vital areas, and the like would be acceptable. It's just a question of whether or not that provides a quantifiable beneift and whether or not we'll have the time to code it in.
--Woof
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Post by seifernious on Mar 4, 2004 17:35:38 GMT -5
Well since your concerned about creating individualism... am sure that your are many more classes of Ninjitsu other then color. And actually, ninja dont use swords.
I would suggest other sword styles of fighting like samurias, and other sword type styles.
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Post by Beagle on Mar 4, 2004 20:08:28 GMT -5
Yeah, the samurai idea passed through my head. We're still trying to decide how to handle weapons and armor, and it looks like right now we're going for less rather than more. But we're still building the system to be able handle new things should we decide they belong.
Not a very informative post, just wanted to let you know we're considering these things and doing our best to come up with solutions that will please everyone.
--Woof
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Post by ooo on Mar 31, 2004 17:45:30 GMT -5
as ninjas dont wear armour what about increased forms of agility??
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Post by Beagle on Mar 31, 2004 21:11:35 GMT -5
Actually, I think we'll be doing something skill related or possibly stat related, similar to agility, but also providing some minor armor enhancements like padded and reinforced clothing. Nothing big on the armor part, it'll just add a slight edge, but defense will mainly come from skills.
--Woof
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Post by Chemikalx on Apr 22, 2004 20:07:09 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it would be cool to have skillpoints to spend after each level up, say 2/3 points per level gain. Interresting system, IMO, would be to have it say, Evasion I=1 point, Evasion 2=3 points, Evasion 3=6 points, Evasion 4=10 points, and so on (With limitations of course. Maybe go to level 5 with each skill, such as defense, evasion, parry(block), etc. Maybe even go as far as to have special abilities, not limited to classes. By this I mean something along the lines of, If you have Level 3 Evasion, you can get "Quick Dodge" (Advanced Evasion Skill, raises evasion by X%), Level 1.
And on a last note as far as this subject goes, maybe have a special ability for each color ninja- and make it SPECIAL. Something like... umm... "Incinerate", A fire based attack that that cuts your opponents health in half, and cuts yours by 1/4th. (I love and hate double edged attacks). That as a red ninja trait only. Maybe something like.. "Heavenly Courage", You deflect 10% damage from your opponents attacks. White ninja only trait. And as for the points, make it expensive, so you have to work for it. Something like 10 points. And as well as a high purchase cost, a reuse timer. Something along the lines of One Day, for attacks like that. But if you have something lesser, such as "Quick Stealth", black ninja trait (You have a 30% chance of escaping combat and hiding when active - Good for 12 hours after activation.), Maybe limit that to only 12 hours reuse time, or something along those lines.
As for the armor thing, I really would like to see some armor, but nothing more than cloth, just better quality for more of a damage absorb. With level requirements as well. Something like... You can buy "Tattered Cloth Leggings" at level 1+, and "Rough Cloth Leggings", at level 5+, "Double Cloth Leggings" at level 10+, and so on. And due to the low levels of above 15's, limit the armor to a 25+ or so level req., with the same stat throughout (for what it matters, as higher levels have no problem slaughtering others), but something as a fairness. As another feature, I'd like to see some protective magic scrolls- be creative.
Letsee... weapons would be a nice effect as I've read. Like where you're headed there with the minimum and maximum damage. Thats about all I can think of.
On a last note, you were asking for avatars that you could sell as extras to non-premium members. Try to give me an idea of what you need/have and don't need/have to the e-mail attached to my account. Thats all for now. Good Luck with NW2.
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Post by Beagle on Apr 23, 2004 1:37:06 GMT -5
Heh! Actually, a lot of that is what we're desiging now.
Skill points to spend in certain area, unique skills for each class, and minimal weapons and armor in the ninja style.
You're on the ball, and we'll be picking this post apart for unique ideas and guidance. Love it! Keep the ideas coming!
Side note: we've been moving away from classes by color, check the thread on it and voice your opinion
--Woof
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Post by HattoriHanzo on Jun 29, 2004 20:33:06 GMT -5
Just as an idea, characters could have a skill that allowed them to make protective scrolls that worked as a type of magic armor, and would become stronger as the character advanced. Making the scrolls could also take several turns and use up mana (if you plan on adding mana or something similar). Also, there could be the option of training in different weapon proficiency (kusarigama, shuriken, etc.) and different levels of weapons which would progressively cost, have a higher level requirement, and be more powerful. Weapon proficiencies could cover full classes of weapons (not just different levels of one weapon, but diferent weapons with similar attributes such as a kusarigama and a kyoketsu shoke or a naginata and a yari). Also, as an alternative to slots or sockets, weapons could be imbued with elements, skills, etc. by characters or npcs, with npc imbueing costing quite a bit and with character imbueings starting at adding weak powers and eventually growing to greatly strengthen a weapon. I know pretty much all of that would be very difficult to program, but it would be pretty nifty if you could.
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Post by Blade Master on Sept 24, 2004 19:43:02 GMT -5
Maybe try putting elemental weapons like magma blade, aqua axe, nature mace,etc. (Bad names but just used as an example) and once you get to the highest level you can obtain one of a legenday weapon but only one like Dark Blade,Kuri-sama of darkness, etc. but these would be lost forever if the level went down one level and could be gotten anytime when it is chosen by the highest possible level player. The defenses can be done the same way except they all cost super high amounts of money instead of gaining level like the weapons. Just a suggestion, hope you like it.
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Post by Beagle on Oct 3, 2004 14:44:25 GMT -5
It would certainly be cool to see "magical" weapons of some type, but we don't want this to turn into an arms race. The game should be about strategy and tactics, not "ph4t l3wt".
--Woof
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Post by Ohkami on Oct 3, 2004 15:20:17 GMT -5
What´s about stealth kills ?
e.g. you train a stealth tchunique and sometimes you good enough and kill your enemy without a fight, or you will be spottet and you must fight or run away ... I think thats a good part for a Ninja-Game ...
Sorry about my bad english ... i´am from germany.
MFG Ohkami
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Post by Beagle on Oct 4, 2004 8:23:05 GMT -5
No worries about the English. Great suggestion. One of the major features of NinjaWars 2 will in fact be a set of stealth skills that all Ninja will have access to.
We hope not only to use stealth in combat, but also for attacking guilds, infiltrating their halls, and sabotaging them, or assassinating one of their members.
--Woof
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Post by Ohkami on Oct 4, 2004 11:13:57 GMT -5
ok great! ;D
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Post by Jin on Dec 30, 2004 18:28:03 GMT -5
I have adn idea that someone already said but here goes. Right now the weapon for sell the skuriken can be used but only once. I had an idea liek a equiping idea that what would happen is you buy a weapon and go to your inventory screen if there will be one and eguip it. The weapon will be there equiped intill it breacks or becomes useless.
well thats my thoughts
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Post by Beagle on Dec 30, 2004 23:18:04 GMT -5
Yes, we are certainly looking to make equippable items in NinjaWars 2. Our vision is to make equippable items provide both benefits and penalties, just like normal weapons would, and the best weapons would provide the most benefit for the least penalty.
After all, we can't have Ninja dual wielding hand axes now can we?
--Woof
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Post by Arnoch on Jun 10, 2005 18:53:10 GMT -5
i think that instead of defence as a stat, we should have evasiveness because thats what ninjas do, they evade. plus ninjas need to be fast and armor slightly hinders their movement. on the weapons topic, ninjas DO use swords (ninja-to, shikomi-zue, zatoichi, and katanas stolen from samurai) i also think that there should be a critical hit percentage. plus, if you are worried about a level 1 getting super great weapons, put prerequisites on certtain weapons.
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Post by murmkuma on Jun 17, 2005 15:20:15 GMT -5
My thoughts are that ninja placed no great value on any of the items they carried on them durring a mission, they were al just tools. I like the idea of a weapon/item being broken or lost or otherwise rendered useless, as well, if an item were lost then it could concievably be found by another ninja. a little dope-warsesque but on your travels between villages you find the slain body of so and so, his sword seems to be in good condition do you want to take it? sort of thing. likewise durring battle or travel, your sword has been cut in half/ you realize your t-star pouch is missing.
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Post by murmkuma on Jun 17, 2005 15:28:15 GMT -5
Also it would be nice to have a max number of items you can carry such as 20 shuriken, max 5 sword/staff type, basically no more than what an actual person could carry. Then the option to discard items if you need space for a better item. It would also be cool to see a steal feature where you can take another ninja's weapons if they are unprotected. I also believe that it would be nice to see more emphasis on the variety of tools ninja implemented as opposed to creating alot of stats on "special weapons".
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Post by murmkuma on Jun 17, 2005 15:32:09 GMT -5
sorry, as for armor I think it accepable to have the option for arm shin and chest protection, just in case, if you think you might get in a scrap why not protect yourself.
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Post by Beagle on Jun 22, 2005 21:49:03 GMT -5
All of these are great suggestions. Here's what I'm thinking.
Cloth reinforcements for large armor like chest, back, arms and legs.
Leather reinforcements for smaller armor like forearms, shins, collars.
Small metallic reinforcements smaller armor like small spikes on arm and shin guards, collars, etc.
Accurate Ninja weaponry like the Ninja-to and Shuriken as well as crossbows, darts, daggers, and perhaps jittes.
Interesting utility items like grappling hooks, rope, wires, explosive powders, and posions.
Mystical items like herbs and potions, scrolls that produce magic spells, items that have magical effects and properties.
What do you all think of this list? Anything you'd like to see added? Something out of place that should be omitted? Let me know.
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