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Post by Magatsu on Dec 23, 2003 21:55:20 GMT -5
What about, with each level up, we are given an average number, and with this number, seperate it into different stats to level up and further customise our character?
I know this means a hell lot more on the coding part, but it'll be better this way, so we can opt for certain things, and do without others.
Example You have gained 30 points. Select a stat to level up:
Charisma 4 [+3] Dexterity 4 [+17] Stealth 10 [+10] Intuition 1 [+ 1] Strength 10 [+ 9] Weapon 10 [+0]
The points in brackets add up to the 30 points given with each level up, and within each stat, has a max point limit according to the different ninja classes.
And for the Skills part, every ninja is given _ALL_ the skills, but they need to reach a certain level to actually USE it. Some skills are useable right at the start for ninjas of their own colour that so-called "possesses" this skill.
Example Level 1 Black ninja skill stats:
Stealth 20 pts [not useable yet] Poison 20 pts [useable]
Sight 0 pts [not useable yet] Cold Steal 0 pts [not useable yet] Burn 10 pts [not useable yet]
For skills like Sight, Cold Steal and Burn, this Black ninja needs at least 100 pts to make this skill useable. And Stealth would be made useable once this black ninja reaches a certain level, eg. level 5, with 50 points input in Stealth.
Points for skills to level up would come with each kill made by the player. And with each kill, depending on the opponent's initial strength, a number of points are awarded for both skill and stats. If this rule is enforced, players of lower levels would be encouraged to defeat players of higher levels, and stop bullying the newbies.
With each clan, a new skill is awarded. This skill can only be shared within the clan itself. Should the ninja be removed or leave that clan, the skill leaves with the ninja. This way, it encourages all the players to join a clan. And with more members with higher levels, that clan can "create" new skills. Probably one new skill in two months? The member used to "create" this skill would be one of the more active players in NW, and has to be of high level status. [But of course, it's the webmaster who randomly picks a skill and dumps it to the clan, with the pretext of this particular ninja being chosen to 'create' this skill.]
Example
Camilo Clan: Elite Warriors Clan members: 10
New Skill created by MidnighthowlX [higher lvl ninja] Frog Summon
This skill is then given to all members in the Elite Warriors clan, but it starts off at 0 pts. The members have to keep adding points to this skill, eg. 200 pts, before they can actually use it in battle.
Good?
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Post by Beagle on Dec 24, 2003 12:10:25 GMT -5
I like how you think ;D
Unfortunately, I don't think ALL of that is doable or should be done.
First, I don't agree that any ninja should be able to acquire all skills. I don't think we've developed a difficult enough game to pull that off yet. Variety is the spice of life, and if any ninja can get all the skills just by grinding out the experience, you can be sure everyone at the top will be exactly the same. So for now we'll stick with classes.
As for more stats. Yeah. I like the idea. The only problem is figuring out exactly what each stat will do. If this is an idea that everyone really likes, then we'll work on getting more stats. There's already some classic answers liike:
Cha - reduces the cost of items at shop and reduces bribe needed to reduce bounty
Ummm...but other than that, I'm kind of at a loss for what to do with more stats given the rather simple combat system the game is based on.
Unique clan skills might not be practical, but perhaps each clan can have a special weapon or armor. Again, I don't know how we'll do this, considering the combat system doesn't allow for a lot of creativity with weapons. Your ideas on how to make unique clan items would be appreciated.
However, I have developed an idea that kind of fits with some of yours. Combat skills that all ninja have access to. The normal "magic" skills that the ninja have based on their class will be "unlocked" as they level. Combat skills, however, must be trained at the dojo by using experience points. These skills are, for the most part, passive skills that give you an edge in combat. For example.
Block - Chance to reduce damage Flying Kick - Chance for high damage attack Focus - Increase minimum damage per attack
etc...
This would be a way to advance your character without levelling because it requires experience points just like levelling would. It also gives you the ability to customize your character, as I intend to make the experience points requirements pretty steep on these skills.
Good suggestions Magatsu. It's good to finally hear from the players. Keep talking. We're all ears!
--Woof
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Post by Magatsu on Dec 24, 2003 14:28:41 GMT -5
Hey Beagle. Thanks for the compliments. Well actually I have already given all these suggestions to Zodiacus/Ninjalord when this forum was all blue and white, and was on invisionfree. [Yes, THAT long ago] All right, on the stats part. What about:Charisma: Ability to sweet-talk. Naturally this also means the filtering of anything dirty that goes along in the character's mail. //psst, I get really amused when I see "p(filtered)word" in my mailbox// Dexterity: Chances of blocking and dodging during a battle is higher Stealth: Ability to steal is provided, with a (+) (-) theory on items stolen. Agility: Chances of assassination and teleportation skills are higher. Strength: Self explanatory But under strength, I request that we have an extra set of stats, which would be: //Weapons Expertise// One-handed weapon Two-handed weapon Short Ranged Long Ranged I find this way of customising your character ninjas much more interesting than just having a new "SUPER DUPER KICKBUTT SWORD CALLED MASAMUNE" or some crap like that. Why would you want a levelled up sword, if you don't have the strength or power to even possess it? If this is a samurai game, then I have nothing to say. But I'd rather NW emphasises on their customisable characters other than extra special rare items. Samurai are stinking rich and famous. A ninja, however, must learn how to improvise. So, he can kill with something as mundane as a pair of chopsticks, without even blinking an eye. [This is true. A friend of mine studies acupuncture, and took up Aikido. He told me that chopsticks CAN kill. Just shove one up a person's nose, pass the nose bridge and penetrate it through the brain. Instant death. But of course, you needn't know that...] Just for your info, I'm currently known as a level 14 black ninja called Kakashi in NW, so anything if needed to show an example, would be related to whatever I would be experiencing. Thanks. Could you elaborate on the experience points part? Would you be given two different sets of experience points to level up different stats? Oh and as for everyone liking the "More stats" part, sure, they'll like it. But I bet they won't think far enough to choose wisely and pick the correct stats to concentrate on, and end up dying very very fast. Then the complaints would start churning in. That's the problem with free web-based games, see. You have players of all ages....with all sorts of weird thinking. And some players tend to be so square, they seem to find all the almost impossible ways of dying. [eg. Fallout] The Block, Flying Kick, and Focus, how would you implement them into the battle system? Would they be an option that you'll need to check and lose turns before the actual start of the battle, or would you be changing the battle system [auto dice roll, I presume.] totally into something more....RPGish? I seriously hope it's not the latter...for I have hardly any patience for RPGs as of late. Probably a bit of strategy would be very interesting if embedded into the game. [eg Dynasty Tactics] Clans can meet at a certain time and have a rampage, or there could be a "War" scheduled between clans. I don't know...at least something that boosts this thing called "Multi-playing" I feel that NW is being rather underrated due to the fact that everytime I log in, I only see...max 4 members online along with me. Anyway, great job on the coding so far...Zodiacus/Ninjalord has been slacking due to his tight study schedule, I heard. ;D
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Post by Beagle on Dec 25, 2003 3:17:47 GMT -5
Hey Magatsu, how come you don't post more! On stats: Charisma - still...is sweet talk just lower prices in the shop? //yeah, been working on the profanity filter on the back burner Dex - great idea, I'll see what I can figure out. Weapon Type Skills - See...unfortunately, this is a bit complex at this level, considering the game doesn't even have equippable weapons yet, and this is our first time trying it out. Would you be amenable to letting us try out weapons in basic form for version 2 and then after we get it down, then we can experiment with weapon skills? Or would that turn you off to the game? On the experience point question, see the appropriate thread in this forum. Could you explain teleportation and assassination? About stealth, do you think the ability to steal items/gold from players should be available, and if so, should killing another ninja not provide items? On the block, flying kick, etc, I'll start a new combat thread. And yah, it's very difficult to get the MMO feel in a BBG, especially without a graphical representation of the world and other means of interaction. I can start a new thread for that as well. And yah, NinjaLord's been quite busy, but I'm keeping him updated on our ideas for NW2 and he's providing his input and guidance, as any good project lead should do. So hook me up with answers to my questions, and hit up the other threads where appropriate. --Woof
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Post by Magatsu on Dec 26, 2003 0:37:26 GMT -5
Of course it is fine! ;D But how about having these weapons first at hand and implemented into the game: //One-handed weapon// Kunai [Ninja daggers]
//Two-handed weapon// Morning star Chain and ball sickle Ninjato
//Short Ranged// Kodaichi
//Long Ranged// Poisoned Darts Crossbow
From here, you can add in the weapon skill trait for players much easier. Have more weapons, by all means, but do keep them classified, so further coding wouldn't be too messy.
[/u] Have you played Shinobi, Street Fighter, MVC2, or Tekken?
Characters in there like Yoshimitsu, Phsylocke, Gouki and Hotsuma, can teleport to another end of the screen while fighting.
So this tactic can be used during battle. If this tactic is turned on before the battle starts, then there would be a dice roll needed for the player against his opponent's FOCUS/CONCENTRATION stats.
EG:
Player - Teleport [10] / dice roll [10] Opponent - Concentration [15] / dice roll [8]
The addition of the player's teleport pts and dice roll has to be more than the opponent's concentration + dice roll, for this tactic to be successful. In this case, the opponent wins, and his concentration stats at the end of the round levels up.
If the player's pts + dice roll is more, it would result in the opponent having to suffer more damage due to loss of concentration, and the player's teleportation stats levels up.
In this case, the proper rule would be, before the start of each battle, the player can select one out of all the skills that his stats provide, to help him in battle, and for this example, I have used the Teleport. After one battle with this stat, it cannot be used again, until the next "ressurrection" every 24 hours.
Yes but this ability is only available to the Black class, as only they, have the Stealth skill. But the probability of this skill being successful is again, based on an auto dice roll, and items or gold is randomised.
If this rule is implemented, then killing another player would still be the same. The opponent loses half his gold. If he loses more, then it would be too punishing.
Hey Beagle. Here's a bone for ya.
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Post by Beagle on Dec 28, 2003 23:23:18 GMT -5
Ok, so the general feeling I'm getting from you is that you're going to pushing us further than we had originally thought.
And let me say, I love it. You're challenging us to do some serious things with this game, and I'm trying my best. I will agree to players having different weapon skills and I will be looking into the most efficient way to do these things.
I will also do some research into common ninja weapons, and if you have any good web sites for me to research, link me up
About stealth, I'm leaning towards making it a skill everyone can get, check out the combat thread for more information.
On the teleportation thing...I'm leaning towards omitting it at this point. Again, check out the combat thread and if you think teleportation can fit, then argue with me over it.
Thanks for all your posts!
--Woof
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Post by seifernious on Mar 5, 2004 2:47:34 GMT -5
Ummm, am thinking if your going to do something that is completly original and amazing your going to have to through away your idea of what a ninja is. Being creative means going against the rules that were set before.
The game as it is now, every ninja at the same level is equal. The only advantages are either the items or health. The leveling system should be change to a classic RP leveling system. This is where you gain exp. then choose what attribute you would like to raise. Eveyone levels differently, many go for strenght, etc... there is really no wrong way to level. It all about customizing a character to your type of fighting styles.
And since variaty is the spice of lifeI think that more skills should be available. And also skill combos is a nice feature. Like if a ninja has two skills that serve the same purpose (stealth and mist) they can be used in a combo that would result in a longer stealth attack. plus the combo feature allows more skills to be made with the limit skills that are available now.
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Post by Beagle on Mar 5, 2004 10:03:14 GMT -5
On experience points: see the appropriate thread in this forum. We agree 100% that the levelling system needs to change.
On exciting and new, I don't think many games have stayed true to the idea of what a ninja is and instead fell pray to the classic hack and slash mentality and just dropped ninjas into it. I think if we can stick with the real history of a ninja (of course with a little poetic license) then we will end up creating a new style of game.
About skills, we agree that players should be different even if they are the same level, and we are working on the advancement system to facilitate this. Mind you, we don't want to be amazing complex, because part of the beauty of a browser-based game is the ease with which many different types of people can pick it up.
But combos! Combos is a great idea. We'd thought of things called "perks", small bonuses you get to choose as you level which would affect certain skills and stuff, but the idea of skill synergy is really nice, I'll have to work on that.
Thanks for the posts! More! More!
--Woof
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Post by Tchalvak on Dec 10, 2004 5:41:52 GMT -5
On stats, my thoughts:
Keep it Simple.
Under the system that we have thought up, even though the system is more complex, more interesting, more fun than present, there is still a certain limit to how many stats we need when the outcomes are still so limited. Either you kill an opponent, or you die. A simplification, but not that much of one.
At present, beagle and I have the thought for two physical stats (strength and speed) and two skill areas "combat/fighting" and "stealth/espionage" (names still uncertain) which would result in a sliding scale that moves between three expertise areas (full stealth, full combat, or hybrid of both).
And we also have a nice packaged idea for classes, but you guys will have to wait for whenever beagle decides it's ready for public scrutiny to find out about that in more depth, it still needs a little bit more polishing.
Anyway, I think that the moral is:
Uniqueness comes from having a few stat strengths arranged in different combinations, not from having lots of stats in a single group with little variation between their effects.
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